BRIAN DENNEHY

Where: his dressing room (Eugene O'Neill Theatre). 6:15 pm.

       A decade of time passing by can do a lot, or little, to change a person. At any reunion there will be people who have totally transformed themselves for the sole purpose of escaping the self that they were, and there will be people trapped in a time warp for whom the phrase "You haven't changed a bit!" was created. But most of us follow human nature and do both, we do change and we don't change.

I first met Brian Dennehy almost twelve years ago when he was starring in the Brooklyn Academy of Music's production of The Cherry Orchard. He was the first well-known actor to agree to give me an interview for my college newspaper, and we talked on the phone a bunch of times and had lunch. He always gave me good advice and answered even my silliest questions.

Fast forward to today, where Dennehy is starring on Broadway in the 50^th anniversary production of Arthur Miller's Death Of A Salesman. It was evident from the start of our conversation that he is still the same friendly, accommodating, frank and insightful man I first encountered. And the differences? Well, he is finally getting the recognition he deserves, is no longer referred to as "a younger Charles Durning," and sells out the Eugene O’Neill Theatre night after night.

And oh, yeah. There's that little thing called a Tony Award for Best Actor that he now owns. All this from an actor who didn't even think he could carry a half-century old play in New York on his name alone.

"The way things work on Broadway these days-" Dennehy stops and lets out a laugh, "Well, up until this season. There hasn't been a great demand for serious plays, and this year suddenly there were four or five major productions on Broadway. With the exception of Iceman, none of which had big stars, but they were all successful. So that when I was doing this in Chicago, and dealing with the way Broadway was then, my attitude was, 'This is a good production, and it was very successful in Chicago, but that will be the end of it.' I didn't think we'd go to New York because it didn't have any of the elements that seem to be important to New York.

"The problem in New York is it's all so tied up with money and one review. You say to yourself, 'This is not what the theater is supposed to be about.' Which is another reason why I wasn't all that enthusiastic about bringing this to New York, but I was wrong."

He then beams, "In this case, it feels okay. The fact is it is perhaps the best American play. This play resonates with people. People consistently go out of the theater, not having seen The Lomans on the stage, but having seen themselves. If that's not the definition of art, I don't know what is. That's an element of the writing, and I probably should have known that.”

One thing Dennehy could not have known was the toll that doing this play would take on his health. The daily tabloid reports had readers believing the worst, but Dennehy sets the record straight.

"It hasn't been that bad. I was not the healthiest guy in the world to begin with. The fact is I was beating myself up with booze and late nights and eating the wrong kinds of things at the wrong time. I can't blame all that on the play, but it exacerbated the situation. My cardiologist came to see the play, and he was appalled. He said, 'You can't do that! In essence, you're having a breakdown eight times a week.' And I said, 'Well, I'm acting.' He said, 'Your body doesn't know that. Your body thinks it's happening, and it's reacting to that.'

"Look, I'm 61 years old. This is an extremely demanding part, so it's going to have its effect. The main effect was to reveal that I was having problems with my blood pressure, which we've resolved. Now I've learned how to play the part in a way that doesn't tear me up as much as it did, but it's still difficult. If I could just do the play and have the rest of the time to myself, I'd be fine. I mean, like tomorrow I have three or four things I have to do, and you hate to say no because it's not people's fault. They don't know, but it just never ends. It's always something, you know? So you're never really getting the proper rest. But the one thing that I know about working in New York now is that you've got to learn how to say no." He suddenly smiles like a little kid with his hand caught in the cookie jar and whispers, "And, uh... I haven't learned how to do that yet."

Because people are so used to seeing Brian Dennehy in films and on television, it is easy to make the mistake of believing that his stage appearance is a one-shot deal. Truth be known, he has "always done a lot of theater" and is adamant about its dwindling status with American audiences.

"There's no great cultural imperative now to write for the theater. There are plays being written, but it's become a kind of museum art form. It doesn't have the same kind of importance that the theater had in the '40s and '50s, where there were a series of voices that told us who we were and tried to explain to us what the world was all about.

"We're not leading examined lives anymore. Most people don't give a shit. They watch Jerry Springer. They listen to Geraldo Rivera, and he's a newsman like I'm a brain surgeon! People just don't give a damn what the theater is about. Yes, there's an appetite for serious theater. Obviously, we proved that this year in New York, and there is a need for it!

"But people who don't go to the theater--and most people don't go--don't understand that things happen in the theater that can't happen in the movies or on television or at a rock concert or on a rap record. You can be profoundly moved and stimulated and educated and made to feel and think in a way that can't happen anywhere else. But it doesn't make any difference how many times I say that if people don't believe it.

"Maybe that's where our culture is now," Dennehy heavily sighs. "It is sad, and it's probably true. It ain't Arthur Miller anymore, and it ain't Tennessee Williams, William Inge and Eugene O'Neill. It's Jerry Fucking Springer! That's what we've got, and we probably deserve it."

Now that Brian Dennehy has conquered Broadway, you would assume that hoisting himself higher up on the Ladder of Stardom would be his next priority. He has been such a commanding presence in every major film release he has been in that it's only natural to picture him as the next head of the Gene Hackman/Morgan Freeman/Tommy Lee Jones table, but Dennehy doesn't see it that way.

"Nobody can tell you what it is that makes a star. Nobody. The audiences decide, but nobody really knows why it happens. So yeah, people like me. I know I'm a good actor, and when I play a part, nobody works harder than I do to try to give fair value to what I do. But the difference between me and Gene Hackman is a real difference.

"But that's okay. It's not a problem. I've done a hell of a lot better in my life and in my career than I ever thought I would, so I have no resentments. I think people are thrown off balance by the fact that I’m willing to talk about it. But why not? What’s wrong with it? I happen to have a good life and a great career. I know basically where I fit. It's not a shocking piece of information. I’m not going to sit and rail against the gods or bad fortune or whatever that these things haven't happened to me. The fact is, the audience decides."

Before audiences were able to decide for themselves, somebody else had to see potential in Dennehy and put him in a position where such decisions could be made. It was all "just a question of perception," he states modestly, as he explains how he got to where he is.

"Other people have to say, 'Shit, that guy's a good actor. That guy's interesting. That can work in this context. Let’s put him to work.' I was doing an Off-Off Broadway play 25 years ago in the mid-'70s, and I got a good review. An agent came to see somebody else--not to see me--and liked what I did and signed me. I was around 35 at the time, driving a truck, and I started going up on serious auditions because I finally had an agent. And I started getting things." He snaps his fingers. "Just like that.

"It was the right time. I was the right age. I had the right history and experience behind me, and it just began to happen. It's all kind of a cliche. I spent a lot of time chopping, and the chips didn't fly for a long time. When I look back on it now, I say to myself, 'What were you thinking?'

“The fact of the matter is that I was not any good at anything else. I tried to do other things, but it just bored me to tears. I didn't have the discipline. So I admire people who go out there to do a job that they don't like, day in and day out, year after year, because they have to make a living and take care of their families. I didn't have the guts or the courage to make myself successful at those other things, and a lot of people do. They go out there and do some shitty ass job that they don't want to do, but they do it! Those people are heroes.

"It's easy to be a movie star. It's easy to be a successful actor. It's a great life. When I hear these actors complain about how tough their life is, that's a bunch of crap. They are a chosen few who get to do something very interesting and very satisfying, and they're well paid for it. Very well paid for it.

"But when somebody says, 'Oh, God!’” Dennehy sucks his teeth in mock disgust. "'The car is going to pick me up at 6:30 in the morning and take me to makeup, and then I've got to go out on the set all day long.' And I'm saying, 'What are you complaining about? What?! Are you crazy?'

"Even as hard as this is to go out there night after night for three hours, laying it all on the line, this is very easy compared to the jobs I used to have, and compared to most people's lives. I know all about that. I've done that shit. And I'm only talking about America! I'm not even talking about the rest of the world where you're worried about your next meal.

"So one of the good things about getting older--and there ain't many--is you begin to learn some balance and get some understanding about where you are and how lucky you have been over the years. And I've been very lucky.

"The fact is, the one thing that I feel good about in terms of my life and my career, and the one thing that I've communicated to my kids, is to have passion for what you do. To care, powerfully and importantly, about what you do. And I do. I care about it because it's my work. So it would be impossible for me to just kind of go through the motions and essentially offer up what I've done before as an actor.

"But the fact is that I do have passion about acting that is attached to time and an understanding of that. That's attached to some kind of self-examination. Who am I? What's going on in my life? What do I want to do with my life? So that at the end of the day, I could basically say that I've been pretty satisfied with what I've done. It may not be everybody's cup of tea, but it certainly has been mine."

Public consensus would surely agree that Brian Dennehy has always been, and will continue to be, exactly what we want. Whether we decide to stay on the track of explosion-filled movies or detour over to the wonderful world of enlightening, classic plays, audiences' taste for him will not change. AAA